If this is really happening, it’s pretty ironic since VWs actual
homepage is lame and unfinished.
Here’s a suggestion – Tell VW that you’ll gladly remove the pictures
and free advertising you provide. Then, replace these positive things
with a listing of recent VW recalls and complaints from current VW
owners. Some of the threads from this group should work just fine….
Paul
Volkswagen of America is suing myself and the university I’m at over the use of
the pictures of volkswagens I have and the technical information provided by
Jan Vanderbrande that I have listed on my page. They claim that only an
"Authorized" venue can use materials relating to Volkswagens, namely only VW of
America. Even though most of my pictures were from Volkswagen AG who encourage
the downloading of their materials by enthusiasts.
The reason behind this you ask. Why would VW of A complain about a venue that
celebrates their cars and engineering? A site that garners over 100,000 hits
per day giving free positive advertising of their products? It’s because VW of
A is trying to set up their own homepage service and wants to charge for its
usage. Imagine even a dollar per download times 100,000 per day…. big $$$$!
They even went on to imply that pictures of your own car and any of its badges
pertaining to VW are the property of VW of America and can only be disributed
by them (at a charge of course). Is it right for VW of America to dictate what
you can do with your car that YOU paid money for and for them to say that only
they can distibute pictures and articles on YOUR car, unless they SELL you
PERMISSION to do so? I don’t think so. And does VW of America forget the fact
that they haveno jurisdiction in a matter involving a CANADIAN University with
a homepage b a CANADIAN. Do they forget about Volkswagen of Canada. And what
about SouthBend VW and their web page? Will VW of America shut down that too.
By shutting down me and all other VW pages, thet think they can monopolize the
market. Except that their big brother Volkswagen AG is only a keystroke away.
Are they going to shut down VW AG too.
Is this just the start of companies trying to shut down little guys so that
they can charge for the privailage to view their products.
I’ll be posting a copy of the brief if The University of Manitoba doesn’t bow
to te ridiculous demands of VW of America to keep it "Confidential". Also I
guess Poular Mechanics will be getting sued also because the other pictures are
from them.
Email me with your comments and support (umski…@cc.umanitoba.ca)and post this
across the world. Also someone has seen this and uploaded acopy of my page to
an anomymis server at:
http://130.179.9.237/volks/vwhome.html
I would appreciate anyone else to copy the page and place it on a secure site
so tat VW of America’s try at world wide censorship is unsuccessful.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
**** <umskilni> wrote:
>Volkswagen of America is suing myself and the university I’m at over the use of
>the pictures of volkswagens I have and the technical information provided by
>Jan Vanderbrande that I have listed on my page. They claim that only an
>"Authorized" venue can use materials relating to Volkswagens, namely only VW of
>America. Even though most of my pictures were from Volkswagen AG who encourage
>the downloading of their materials by enthusiasts.
>The reason behind this you ask. Why would VW of A complain about a venue that
>celebrates their cars and engineering? A site that garners over 100,000 hits
>per day giving free positive advertising of their products? It’s because VW of
>A is trying to set up their own homepage service and wants to charge for its
>usage. Imagine even a dollar per download times 100,000 per day…. big $$$$!
>They even went on to imply that pictures of your own car and any of its badges
>pertaining to VW are the property of VW of America and can only be disributed
>by them (at a charge of course). Is it right for VW of America to dictate what
>you can do with your car that YOU paid money for and for them to say that only
>they can distibute pictures and articles on YOUR car, unless they SELL you
>PERMISSION to do so? I don’t think so. And does VW of America forget the fact
>that they haveno jurisdiction in a matter involving a CANADIAN University with
>a homepage b a CANADIAN. Do they forget about Volkswagen of Canada. And what
>about SouthBend VW and their web page? Will VW of America shut down that too.
>By shutting down me and all other VW pages, thet think they can monopolize the
>market. Except that their big brother Volkswagen AG is only a keystroke away.
>Are they going to shut down VW AG too.
>Is this just the start of companies trying to shut down little guys so that
>they can charge for the privailage to view their products.
>I’ll be posting a copy of the brief if The University of Manitoba doesn’t bow
>to te ridiculous demands of VW of America to keep it "Confidential". Also I
>guess Poular Mechanics will be getting sued also because the other pictures are
>from them.
>Email me with your comments and support (umski…@cc.umanitoba.ca)and post this
>across the world. Also someone has seen this and uploaded acopy of my page to
>an anomymis server at:
>http://130.179.9.237/volks/vwhome.html
>I would appreciate anyone else to copy the page and place it on a secure site
>so tat VW of America’s try at world wide censorship is unsuccessful.
They can’t be serious. No way they can sue you over pictures of your car.
Some bonehead in VW of America is looking at the numbers but not the
invisible numbers (i.e. gee if we charge this much per page, versus, gee
how many more VWs are we going to sell if we SUPPORT home pages
of VWs all over the Net?).
Let me know is there’s anything I can do…
Jud.
In article <434g74$…@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> **** <umskilni> writes:
>Volkswagen of America is suing myself and the university I’m at over the use of
>the pictures of volkswagens I have and the technical information provided by
>Jan Vanderbrande that I have listed on my page. They claim that only an
>"Authorized" venue can use materials relating to Volkswagens, namely only VW of
>America. Even though most of my pictures were from Volkswagen AG who encourage
>the downloading of their materials by enthusiasts.
This whole business is of grave concern to myself, and all the
Web maintainers out there.
Here are my comments (I am not a lawyer, so these are just my opinions,
and no-one else’s):
>They even went on to imply that pictures of your own car and any of its badges
>pertaining to VW are the property of VW of America and can only be disributed
>by them (at a charge of course). Is it right for VW of America to dictate what
1) No one cannot restrict anyone from publishing pictures they took of
their own cars. This would mean that all the car magazines would
have to seize all their publications (about VWs or any other car).
This is obviously ludicrous!
2) No one cannot restrict anyone from publishing information on their
cars as long as it is not in violation of any copyrights or trademarks.
This is backed up by the freedom of speech act in the USA, though
other countries may differ in this regard.
Again, if what they claim holds up in court, then again, no one
would be allowed to publish anything about VWs (or they would claim
the rights to it). Again ludicrous.
3) VWoA *can* however sue anyone for copyright infringement if you
used any of their published material without their permission.
I am not sufficiently familiar with the trademark laws to make a comment.
>The reason behind this you ask. Why would VW of A complain about a venue that
>celebrates their cars and engineering? A site that garners over 100,000 hits
>per day giving free positive advertising of their products? It’s because VW of
>A is trying to set up their own homepage service and wants to charge for its
>usage. Imagine even a dollar per download times 100,000 per day…. big $$$$!
>By shutting down me and all other VW pages, thet think they can monopolize the
>market. Except that their big brother Volkswagen AG is only a keystroke away.
>Are they going to shut down VW AG too.
I believe this is in direct violation of free market enterprice, and
international trade law. If I have a product which I sell for X, and
you have a similar product which you sell for Y (with Y > X, and X in
our case is ~ 0), then you cannot sue me unless you can show unfair
trading practices such as product "dumping" (which is a will full intent
to damage someone else’s business). Since these Web pages and technical
info existed long before VW started participating on the internet
it will be hard to prove that we are trying to compete with their Web page.
On the contrary, it’s the other way around.
If they want to charge money for accessing their Web pages, good luck.
At this point e-cash is still not quite well established. Perhaps
in a couple of years…I guess you’ll have to become a "member"
to down load their info as some Web sites are doing (which is not
unreasonable), but that cannot prevent anyone else from providing
info about their products.
If they are trying to create a monopoly, then the federal US gov’t will
interfere I believe. Monoplies are illegal in the USA, and generally
"frowned" upon elsewhere. Since the internet spans many continents,
it is unclear which laws apply.
>I’ll be posting a copy of the brief if The University of Manitoba doesn’t bow
>to te ridiculous demands of VW of America to keep it "Confidential". Also I
Please do if it does not incriminate you.
At this point, all we have to go on is hear-say, and to
be fair, we need to look at the facts.
This whole business sounds way to heavy handed.
They should be grateful for the propagation of information
on their cars because it is free promotion for them.
VW has probably benefitted more from the Internet communications
and other existing BBSs then by not having these media.
Jan Vandenbrande
Lawyers Wanted
————————–
Disclaimers: These are just my opinions, and do not represent that of
any affiliation and organization.
VW is a registered trademark of the VAG cooperation.
Copyright (c) 1995 Jan Vandenbrande, all rights reserved.
–
—————–
Jan j…@lipari.usc.edu
In article <434g74$…@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca>, **** <umskilni> says:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
>Volkswagen of America is suing myself and the university I’m at over the use of
>the pictures of volkswagens I have and the technical information provided by
>Jan Vanderbrande that I have listed on my page. They claim that only an
>"Authorized" venue can use materials relating to Volkswagens, namely only VW of
>America. Even though most of my pictures were from Volkswagen AG who encourage
>the downloading of their materials by enthusiasts.
>The reason behind this you ask. Why would VW of A complain about a venue that
>celebrates their cars and engineering? A site that garners over 100,000 hits
>per day giving free positive advertising of their products? It’s because VW of
>A is trying to set up their own homepage service and wants to charge for its
>usage. Imagine even a dollar per download times 100,000 per day…. big $$$$!
>They even went on to imply that pictures of your own car and any of its badges
>pertaining to VW are the property of VW of America and can only be disributed
>by them (at a charge of course). Is it right for VW of America to dictate what
>you can do with your car that YOU paid money for and for them to say that only
>they can distibute pictures and articles on YOUR car, unless they SELL you
>PERMISSION to do so? I don’t think so………..
THAT IS TOTAL BULLSHIT!!!!
Unless you are charging people to see these pictures, they haven’t a leg to stand on.
If this is a for real posting, VW is making a huge mistake to slap the VW enthusiast
with crap like this. How did they find out about these (your) sites anyway?
This is very hard for me to believe, that they would waste their time in doing something
this extreme…..Oh well???
NSny…@sugar-land.dowell.slb.com
>>93 Corrado SLC<<
"Porsche performance at a VW price"
**** <umskilni> wrote:
>Volkswagen of America is suing myself and the university I’m at over the use of
>the pictures of volkswagens I have and the technical information provided by
>Jan Vanderbrande that I have listed on my page. They claim that only an
>"Authorized" venue can use materials relating to Volkswagens, namely only VW of
>America. Even though most of my pictures were from Volkswagen AG who encourage
>the downloading of their materials by enthusiasts.
>Email me with your comments and support (umski…@cc.umanitoba.ca)
Fuck the coporate bastards !!
**** (umskilni) wrote:
: Volkswagen of America is suing myself and the university
: I’m at over the use of the pictures of volkswagens I have
: and the technical information provided by…
[snip]
Assuming that this is all true…
Write a letter to the President, CEO and other top dogs at VOA
and VAG and tell them what their lawyers are up to. Tell them
to call it off or it’ll be a war on the internet. I hope that
your university lawyers have the "intestinal fortitude" to win
the stare-down.
-Jeffy
(a long-time VW owner and VW fan….watching with interest…)
>Volkswagen of America is suing myself and the university I’m at over the
use
>of
>the pictures of volkswagens
Send them my way I have pictures of VWs too!
I’ll fight with you!
http://home.aol.com/BPullig
Keep the shiny side up!
Bruce
—————————————–
1980 Scirocco ITC #80
1977 Scirocco DSP #77
1995 Toyota Corolla 16V
1995 Nissan Pickup
Well well well. Just so you know. VW of America has no right to bring
litigation against the University of Manitoba because you simply offer a
web site. If you were acting as a paid consultant for VW of A and taking
money for FAQ’s or brochure material, then the most they could do is sue
for loss of income. A weak case at best.
Someone at VW of A is full of shit and has no clue about intellectual
property rights and such. It’s too bad the cars are so cool, ’cause the
dealer network and corporation are such idiots.
VW Car + Saturn philosophy = Perfect Car Company
1989 1.8l 16v GTX
http://www.discribe.ca/macneil/GTX.html
–
Colin MacNeil
Interactive Licensing Agent
Bouctouche NB
macn…@digiverse.com (Canada)
Skyen…@aol.com (New York/California)
***if macn…@Digiverse.com returns unsent feel free to use my home e-mail at: macn…@nbnet.nb.ca***
While part of me agrees with your diligence, I mean hell I
wanted to set up a GTI homepage, copyrighted material is
copyrighted material. I doubt that VW will charge for their
(crappily put together) web page, they just don’t want you
to be getting all of the hits when people search the word
Volkswagen. It is their trademark, even if you drew it! I
like your page a lot, and have visited numerous times. I
doubt that VW will even touch dealership homepages. After
all, it sells cars. I want to wish you the best of luck,
but it will be an uphill battle -regardless of whether
you’re Canadian or not.
Wes Miller
**** <umskilni> wrote:
>Volkswagen of America is suing myself and the university I’m at over the use of
>the pictures of volkswagens I have and the technical information provided by
>Jan Vanderbrande that I have listed on my page. They claim that only an
[snip]
This is of great concern to me also. Do you think that your use of images
from VW (like Web site "Visitor Center", which is probably copyrighted) and
the title "The Volkswagen Homepage" is specifically what they are taking
issue with? If so, they may have a point, but if all their other claims
you’ve mentioned are true, they’re full of it. Your publicity in EC may
have been a factor. In any case, if they merely objected to using
copyrighted images and the name "The Volkswagen Homepage", they certainly
could have contacted you to discuss changes to your Web site. By their
apparent actions, however, they are certain to alienate literally thousands
of VW enthusiasts (many more by "word of mouth", also). Amazing! :-(
Larry Buchholz
Not speaking for SSi or TDK
i think somebody should write a letter, collect signatures and send it
off to ferdinand piech in wolfsburg with a cc: to the local VWoA head
honcho. i’m sure some bozo’s head will roll at VWoA. the stupidity
defies belief! peter fraser, are you reading this???
eliot
Here is another side of the story…
From: shaf…@volkswagen.com
Subject: Re: Feedback – VW Website
The facts are:
1. It is not now and never has been our intention to close any website
or, specifically, the website at the University of Manitoba.
2. We are neither suing or censoring anyone in this matter.
3. It is our desire to protect our trademark and to ensure that it is
properly and tastefully used. This was not the case in this instance and
we were attempting to correct this matter.
4. Volkswagen does not charge people to view information on its website.
5. We look forward to working with anyone interested in developing their
own Volkswagen Internet application, provided that our trademark is used
correctly.
The site in question presented the VW logo not only without permission
but in a way which was patently offensive — as a cover to the private
parts of a nude woman. At best this is in extremely poor taste; at worst
it is offensive to our current and future female customers.
Thank you for your interest in the situation.
Volkswagen of America
Volkswagen of Canada
Public Relations
[Detroit MetroPlex] VWoA always give their newly graduated lawyers
(now housed in Auburn, MI – formerly in Troy, MI) the assignment
to go and find copyright infringers and other minor no-no’s.
Recycled Bugs in Pontiac (adjacent to Auburn) got so tired of the
harresment by newbie corporate lawyers that they finally changed
their name to "Parts Place, Inc — Formerly Recycled Bugs".
Bryan
In a previous article, **** (umskilni) said:
> Volkswagen of America is suing myself and the university I’m at over the
> use of the pictures of volkswagens I have and the technical information
> provided by Jan Vanderbrande that I have listed on my page. They claim
> that only an "Authorized" venue can use materials relating to Volkswagens,
> namely only VW of America. Even though most of my pictures were from
> Volkswagen AG who encourage the downloading of their materials by
> enthusiasts.
This paragraph both scares me and makes me wonder. If Jan provided his
own opinions, words, and net.wisdom, they don’t have a leg to stand on.
However, if he provided copies of technical service bulletins, sales
literature, or other materials whose copyright is retained by VW, then
you’re in trouble.
With regards to the pictures, does Volkswagen AG "encourage" you to
download these images and _REDISTRIBUTE_ them? Did you obtain them from
a publicly available archive site at VWAG, or did you lift them from
their web server? I would suspect the latter, and your university should
rightfully terminate your web page.
The unfortunate thing with Internet technology like the web is that
existing copyright law was designed when the printing press was a novelty.
Can you imagine the legal ramifications of providing links to VW’s own
home page or any part thereof in any of your own pages? Obviously, I
wouldn’t take the chance, and would advise other web sites to leave
http://www.vw.com an orphan. (BTW: I’m almost positive that a domain or system
name on the Internet cannot be a trademark.) The design goal for the web
was to allow information from many diverse sources to be presented on a
single page. Whether you had the actual picture file or a pointer to it
on VWAG’s system is not going to fly in court, unless you happen to get
lucky and find a judge who also knows how to author web pages. What is
obvious is that VW has the ability here to set the Internet back 5 years.
Right now, the technology is 15 years ahead of the copyright laws.
> They even went on to imply that pictures of your own car and any of its
> badges pertaining to VW are the property of VW of America and can only be
> disributed by them (at a charge of course). Is it right for VW of America
> to dictate what you can do with your car that YOU paid money for and for
> them to say that only they can distibute pictures and articles on YOUR
> car, unless they SELL you PERMISSION to do so? I don’t think so. And does
> VW of America forget the fact that they haveno jurisdiction in a matter
> involving a CANADIAN University with a homepage b a CANADIAN. Do they
> forget about Volkswagen of Canada. And what about SouthBend VW and their
> web page? Will VW of America shut down that too.
Scare tactics to your university, most likely meant to get them to pull
your page offline quickly.
Think about it. Anyone who races a VW and has a picture taken has to pay
a royalty to VW if it becomes "published"?????? I had plans on racing my
GTI VR6 in the One Lap of America (TM?) next year, but this says that I
can’t even take pictures of my car to solicit sponsors, and any sponsor’s
decals on my car would be the property of VW as well. I bet BMW would
have no problem GIVING me an M3 lightweight for the week of the event.
I think the whole problem started over the plug for the page in 8/95 EC
magazine. They titled it "the VW web page". We all now that THE VW web
page is at http://www.vw.com, but the VW lawyers want to make sure that
you know it as well. Change the name of your page to something that says
"rec.autos.makers.vw.watercooled UNOFFICIAL home page", put in a
disclaimer like Jan did in his followup that VW, Golf, GTI, Jetta, Passat,
and other trademarks mentioned in this and subsequent pages are trademarks
of VWofA, VWAG, and their subsidiaries, and you will probably satisfy the
lawyers.
I saw a few references to it as the VW home page, and misconstrued it as
being official at first. Let the record show that I have never read your
page(s), so I don’t have a clue what they contain.
Also, we can deduce that VW administration and/or lawyers read the tech
letters in EC, so maybe we should see if we can get this whole thread in
print as well, and use that forum to let them know what we really think
of them. Hey VW admin: I just received a JD Power survey form in the
mail today for customer satisfaction with my new VW. I guess the Camry
will be winning their accolades again when I make sure to itemize the
defects present in my new VW at delivery. The gas gauge is inaccurate,
the headlights are out of adjustment, the driver’s seat back collapsed
while I was driving, the tires are a mismatch on this car, and I haven’t
even gotten to the dealer screw-ups yet. I’ve been very patient and
forgiving to date, but I guess everyone should know the truth. Try and
censor it!
Oh, one other point. If they put a pointer in their web page to yours,
change the parties in their letter and send it back to them!
> I’ll be posting a copy of the brief if The University of Manitoba
> doesn’t bow to te ridiculous demands of VW of America to keep it
> "Confidential". Also I guess Poular Mechanics will be getting sued also
> because the other pictures are from them.
If at all possible, I would like to have a copy of this letter. I am
responsible for enforcing these types of policies at my own institution,
and would like to see what grounds they are trying to build a case on.
You can either e-mail it to me at the above address, or e-mail me and I’ll
give you my snail-mail address for a paper copy. If necessary, I will
promise to now disseminate it any further.
-Arthur (1995 GTI VR6, black, 6016 miles, ugly green seats)
* VW, Volkswagen, VW of A, VWAG, Golf, GTI, Jetta, Passat, VR6, and other
items in this posting are or may be trademarks or registered
trademarks of Volkswagen or any of it’s international subsidiaries.
- The color black is (c) eons ago by God, although your religion may vary.
- "Ugly green seats" should be a trademark of Geo, but were included in
my new $19,800 car for some unknown reason.
- I reserve the right to sue VW of A for false advertising, in showing
pictures of a 4-cylinder GTI with black sport bucket seats on their
web page, and calling it a GTI VR6. I also reserve the right to demand
that they replace the ugly green seats in my new automobile with the
seats shown in the web photo(s). Also, I want the record to reflect that
I have tried on several occasions to leave a comment or feedback to them
via their web page with regards to this matter, but the feedback feature
isn’t implemented yet.
- My middle finger is copyright (C) 1964 by my parents, who keep telling
me not to display it, despite my constitutional right to freedom of
expression.
- This entire document is copyright (C) 1995 by Arthur Emerson. All
rights reserved. I hereby give permission to anybody to use it for
whatever they want, but expressly prohibit the distribution of it in
whole or part via the Microsoft Network (TM), and place a mandatory use
fee of $19,800 if it is read by any representative or employee of
Volkswagen of America, it’s parent company, or any other subsidiaries.
- The opinions in this document are mine alone, and do not represent
those of my employer.
- I am not a lawyer, but I do know where to hire a few good ones as soon
as the OJ trial is over……
In article <434g74$…@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca> **** <umskilni> writes:
> Volkswagen of America is suing myself and the university I’m at over
> the use of the pictures of volkswagens I have and the technical
> information provided by Jan Vanderbrande that I have listed on my
> page. They claim that only an "Authorized" venue can use materials
> relating to Volkswagens, namely only VW of America.
I have been told by the VWoA webmaster that this is patently false. They
only requested the removal of an image (of a naked female, I believe, with
a strategically placed VW logo), and had no issue with the rest. Or can
you provide some further evidence about this harassment? Or a contact
person who can verify this lawsuit?
They specifically do not have any objections to my VW pages, even though
many of the images there, too, originate with VW.
–
[ /tom haapanen -- t...@metrics.com -- software metrics inc -- waterloo, ont ]
[ "okie use' ta mean you was from oklahoma. now it means you're scum. don't ]
[ mean nothing itself, it's the way they say it." -- john steinbeck ]
I sincerely hope that VWA have the good sense to let this lie.
As a VW owner I can personally assure VWA that I will _never_ pay for
access to their web site. Perhaps they should rethink this ridiculous
legal action…
Hmm, methinks that VWA has never encountered the words "free advertising"..?
…Dino
–
*-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=–=-=-=*
*-=-* Dino Nardini, Rivendell Software *-=-*
*-=-* email -> ae…@ccn.cs.dal.ca *-=-*
*-=-* Web Site -> http://www.ccn.cs.dal.ca/~ae234/Profile.html *-=-*
*-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-*
Arthur, thought I’d let you know, those ghastly seats that
you and I have in our 95 GTI’s are but a collector’s item.
The 1996 GTI-VR6 DOES have flat black seating, how
tasteful. The GTI, (read Golf Sport to those in the know)
will be the proud bearer of new, nastier cloth in 1996, and
it will be called the GTI for ’96. Thought you might want
to know, so you can appreciate the rarity of that beautiful
Geometric pattern on the seats.
Wes Miller
In a previous article, Jan Vandenbrande (j…@lipari.usc.edu) said:
> 1) No one cannot restrict anyone from publishing pictures they took of
> their own cars. This would mean that all the car magazines would
> have to seize all their publications (about VWs or any other car).
> This is obviously ludicrous!
We’ll take this one as a given. Quite to the contrary, VW cannot use
YOUR photos without your permission.
> 2) No one cannot restrict anyone from publishing information on their
> cars as long as it is not in violation of any copyrights or trademarks.
I think the whole problem here stems from the 8/1995 EC mention of this
page as the VW page, implying it belonged to VW. If it was titled so as
to appear to be official, and used the VW trademark, then they do have
grounds to stop it. I think the letter they sent to umanitoba.ca was
just to make them look into the situation and act hastily.
> 3) VWoA *can* however sue anyone for copyright infringement if you
> used any of their published material without their permission.
> I am not sufficiently familiar with the trademark laws to make a comment.
I bet this is the case here – lifted images from VW AG’s web page.
> >The reason behind this you ask. Why would VW of A complain about a venue
> >that celebrates their cars and engineering? A site that garners over
> >100,000 hits per day giving free positive advertising of their products?
> >It’s because VW of A is trying to set up their own homepage service
> >and wants to charge for its usage. Imagine even a dollar per download
> > times 100,000 per day…. big $$$$!
My boss and I had a discussion about this very issue today. He saw a
television show recently where lawyer(s) were talking about copyright
infringement. The above flawed logic was the number one excuse given by
copyright violators.
Not to be rude, but I don’t think they really give a rat’s ass about your
page, just the use of their materials and trademarks. Businesses like VW
are using the web to advertise their products. I don’t know about you,
but I don’t plan on paying to read product literature, and would bet that
almost everyone else here feels the same way. If, however, they had the
technical service bulletins and repair manuals online, that would be
another story.
> I believe this is in direct violation of free market enterprice, and
> international trade law. If I have a product which I sell for X, and
> you have a similar product which you sell for Y (with Y > X, and X in
> our case is ~ 0),
[snip]
…But, if you take MY product X and sell it as your own product Y, then
you’re in trouble.
> If they are trying to create a monopoly, then the federal US gov’t will
> interfere I believe. Monoplies are illegal in the USA, and generally
> "frowned" upon elsewhere. Since the internet spans many continents,
> it is unclear which laws apply.
Yes, like they did with ol’ Billy Gates. They really showed him. NOT!
At least his Porsche 959 is still rusting away in the Oakland Customs
impound yard, the last I heard.
> VW has probably benefitted more from the Internet communications
> and other existing BBSs then by not having these media.
If they are having a problem with the use of the trademark, then is
rec.autos.makers.vw.watercooled in trouble too? It implies that VW, as
an auto maker, manages the group. Rec.autos.vw implies a group of
recreational VW owners. May rec.autos.vw live again?????
-Arthur
* VW is a registered trademark of the VAG cooperation.
- The opinions expressed in this article are mine, and do not reflect
those of my employer.
Q: What do you have when you see a lawyer buried up to his neck ?
A: Not enough sand!
Q: Why do they bury lawyers 75 feet deep when they die?
A: Because "deep down", they’re really nice guys.
Q: What do you call a bus full of lawyers going over a cliff with an
empty seat?
A: A crying shame!
Q: What do you call it when 100,000 lawyers are herded into the ocean and
drowned?
A: A good start!
Q: Why don’t sharks attack lawyers?
A: Professional courtesy.
Q: What’s the difference between a catfish and a lawyer?
A: One’s a bottom-feeding scum sucker, the other one is a fish.
Q: How should you address the VW lawyer who wrote the letter to umanitoba.ca?
A: Hey, waiter! :-)
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
tfor…@house.hr.gov wrote:
> Here is another side of the story…
> The site in question presented the VW logo not only without permission
> but in a way which was patently offensive — as a cover to the private
> parts of a nude woman. At best this is in extremely poor taste; at worst
> it is offensive to our current and future female customers.
> Thank you for your interest in the situation.
> Volkswagen of America
> Volkswagen of Canada
> Public Relations
The picture in question inadvertingly used when one of our
associates added a link during an upgrade. The page was sent
as a personal communicae but the shell of the page and consequently
that link was reused numerous times over. The page was never meant
to or ever suspected to be different after the ruled lined, and this
problem was not made aware until we received mail for more pictures.
The link was then found and removed. We did not receive any complaints
of this anr logs show only a small percentage of users ever loaded
this.
The rest of your facts I am not allowed to comment on, as an order
from the parties in question to retain the requested
"Confidential"-ality.
But I will say the site was immediately removed on reception of your
letter and the institution has made it clear that they will be very
reluctant to ever allow any site regarding a product again.Especially,
anything related to VW(c).
In article <436j7a$…@sndsu1.sedalia.sinet.slb.com> NSny…@sugar-land.dowell.slb.com (NSnyder) writes:
>From: NSny…@sugar-land.dowell.slb.com (NSnyder)
>Subject: Re: VW of A Suing ME over The VW Homepage
>Date: 13 Sep 1995 12:35:54 GMT
>THAT IS TOTAL BULLSHIT!!!!
>Unless you are charging people to see these pictures, they haven’t a leg to stand on.
>If this is a for real posting, VW is making a huge mistake to slap the VW enthusiast
>with crap like this. How did they find out about these (your) sites anyway?
>This is very hard for me to believe, that they would waste their time in doing something
>this extreme…..Oh well???
As a graphic designer considering the use of corporate logotypes and
trademarks, I can see where VWoA and VAG may have a legitimate issue here.
The website makes use of VW’s logo, registered worldwide as a trademark, for
one thing. Companies do have a right to protect their symbols. I have
noticed that photography that looks like it may have been lifted from VW
product brochures as well–also protected material.
I think that with some alterations, the Manitoba website could be made legal.
The logo use could even be made legal, provided the logo was used with
permission of VW and the creators used the logo with restrictions negotiated
from VW. Other information, such as product opinions, and photographs
submitted by individuals that is not copyright protected, distributed
on this website does not violate copyright law
Copyright and Trademark law should not be violated for use on the net. I know
that I would be miffed if my corporation’s logo was used on the net (or
anywhere else, for that matter) by an unauthorized source.
Donald Baxter
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
tfor…@house.hr.gov wrote:
>Here is another side of the story…
>From: shaf…@volkswagen.com
>Subject: Re: Feedback – VW Website
>The facts are:
>1. It is not now and never has been our intention to close any website
>or, specifically, the website at the University of Manitoba.
>2. We are neither suing or censoring anyone in this matter.
>3. It is our desire to protect our trademark and to ensure that it is
>properly and tastefully used. This was not the case in this instance and
>we were attempting to correct this matter.
>4. Volkswagen does not charge people to view information on its website.
>5. We look forward to working with anyone interested in developing their
>own Volkswagen Internet application, provided that our trademark is used
>correctly.
>The site in question presented the VW logo not only without permission
>but in a way which was patently offensive — as a cover to the private
>parts of a nude woman. At best this is in extremely poor taste; at worst
>it is offensive to our current and future female customers.
>Thank you for your interest in the situation.
>Volkswagen of America
>Volkswagen of Canada
>Public Relations
I’ve saved the above letter just in case…
Jud.
In <436j7a$…@sndsu1.sedalia.sinet.slb.com>
NSny…@sugar-land.dowell.slb.com (NSnyder) writes:
>In article <434g74$…@canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca>, **** <umskilni> says:
>>Volkswagen of America is suing myself and the university I’m at over the use of
>>the pictures of volkswagens I have and the technical information provided by
>>Jan Vanderbrande that I have listed on my page. They claim that only an
>>"Authorized" venue can use materials relating to Volkswagens, namely only VW of
>>America. Even though most of my pictures were from Volkswagen AG who encourage
>>the downloading of their materials by enthusiasts.
>THAT IS TOTAL BULLSHIT!!!!
OK. Let’s all calm down a bit to look at this situation rationally.
Even if VWoA appears heavy-handed, they do have an obligation to protect
their property; specifically their name, logos, etc which may appear on
the offending home page. They may also legitimately object to the name
of the page as it could be construed as being officially sanctioned by them.
I’ve also read other articles in this thread that appear to allege
plagiarism on the part of the home page owner and state that there
isn’t a skerrick of originality in the page. Not having seen the page,
I cannot contribute any sort of opinion on that. However, if all the
sources of information are attributed and no claim to originality is
made, then the page doesn’t constitute plagiarism IMHO.
Obviously, somebody has put significant effort into contructing what
was believed to be a useful net resource, or even just a fun thing to
do. Some view his efforts to be of greater value, than those of VW’s
web page.
Instead of plunging destructively into litigation, a more constructive
approach should be taken.
1. The University and the web page owner should ensure that appropriate
warnings about the ownership of trademarks and registered names be
included in the web pages, where appropriate.
2. The web page be renamed so that it cannot be misconstrued as being
an "official" VW web page.
These two efforts should IMHO be adequate to protect the rights of VW.
3. VW retracts its suit.
4. VW places a URL to the unofficial web page in theirs, and a pointer
to the official place is maintained in the page at umanitoba.
Nobody will wind up with egg on their face.
We have a nett gain in a cooperative relationship between enthusiasts
and the manufacturer. This cannot hurt anybody.
That is productive.
—
Bernd Felsche, MetaPro Systems Pty Ltd
130 Fauntleroy Avenue, Redcliffe, Western Australia 6104
Phone: +61 9 479 3722 Fax: +61 9 479 3720
In <DEv6uI….@cs.dal.ca> ai…@ccn.cs.dal.ca (Jeffrey A. Harvey) writes:
>**** (umskilni) wrote:
>: Volkswagen of America is suing myself and the university
>: I’m at over the use of the pictures of volkswagens I have
>: and the technical information provided by…
>Assuming that this is all true…
>Write a letter to the President, CEO and other top dogs at VOA
>and VAG and tell them what their lawyers are up to. Tell them
>to call it off or it’ll be a war on the internet. I hope that
>your university lawyers have the "intestinal fortitude" to win
>the stare-down.
Is it something in the water?
Why all this aggro?
—
Bernd Felsche, MetaPro Systems Pty Ltd
130 Fauntleroy Avenue, Redcliffe, Western Australia 6104
Phone: +61 9 479 3722 Fax: +61 9 479 3720
Since the use of personal photos of VW’s should be allowed, could you use
a close up of the logo instead of a just a graphic?
Ern
(devoted Fox Wagon Owner, former VW mechanic, and swell guy.)