Hi,
We (my son and I) are new to the Scirocco’s (and VW’s) and bought an 85
Scirocco. It has been running well for about a month but now will not start.
While driving one day it just quite running, quietly. Was coasting, pushed
the gas and . . . nothing. It turns over well and occasionally will fire but
will not start. It appears to not be getting gas. We checked the fuel pump
fuse and it is good, pulled the fuel filter and turned it over – no gas
pumping. We pulled the fuel pump relay from the fuse box, jumpered the
connection, and do not hear the fuel pump run. (There is a pump like buzz ut
it seems to be coming from the engine compartment near the fuel filter.)
When jumpering the circuit for the fuel pump, and touching the fuel pump it
seems to click when engaged but that is it. How can I be certain it is the
fueul pump? Is there something else I could/should check first? One last
item. Chilton’s says there is a fuse on the fuel pump relay, which we could
not find. Howeer, there is a 30 amp fuse alone above all the relays on the
fuse box that is burned. It is not just a burned fuse but the socket is
actually burned. Is this a fuse for the fuel pump relay? Does anyone know
what this may be for?
Thanks for listening and any assistance!
Thanks,
Dana
Not really sure about the Scirocco specifically, but to do the "last ditch
check" to see if the fuel pump is dead is to apply direct 12 volt current to
the pump terminals. The pump should have a + and – terminal. Take 2 leads
and hook direct from a 12volt battery. The pump should run when the current
is applied. Usually when they are locked up and bad they click but you
can’t feel it run. When they are good you can feel them run. Its kinda of a
humming sound. When you do this test MAKE SURE THE FUEL PUMP IS SAFELY AWAY
FROM THE FUEL TANK! I REPEAT MAKE SURE THE FUEL PUMP IS SAFELY AWAY FROM A
GAS SOURCE. Some people will tell you the pump shouldn’t be ran without the
presence of fuel, because fuel is the lubricant, but doing this test for a
SHORT amount of time (no more than 6-7 seconds) shouldn’t hurt the pump if
it was good. Some books will tell you to run lines into a gas can. I
prefer NOT to take the risk of explosion. Sometimes you may be able to
GENTLY tap the side of pump and you can break lose the vanes that run
inside. I have done that before and loosened up some rust that was sucked
into the pump by accident. But usually the pump is fired and needs
replacement. Check ebay before you run to a parts store and pay big bucks
for a new one. As for the fuse issue. My only comment is, figure out why
it is burned before just placing a new fuse into it. There is always a
reason it burned. I do have a manual on the Scriocco. I will try to get
the fuse panel scanned in for you and sent. Hope this helps.
Mac
66 Notchback "Louie"
67 Squareback "Edison"
70 Squareback "Madison"
90 Cabriolet "Ellie"
01 Passat "Jules"
"DC" <woul…@meemail.adr> wrote in message
news:X5rAa.22583$ek2.302765@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> Hi,
> We (my son and I) are new to the Scirocco’s (and VW’s) and bought an 85
> Scirocco. It has been running well for about a month but now will not
start.
> While driving one day it just quite running, quietly. Was coasting, pushed
> the gas and . . . nothing. It turns over well and occasionally will fire
but
> will not start. It appears to not be getting gas. We checked the fuel pump
> fuse and it is good, pulled the fuel filter and turned it over – no gas
> pumping. We pulled the fuel pump relay from the fuse box, jumpered the
> connection, and do not hear the fuel pump run. (There is a pump like buzz
ut
> it seems to be coming from the engine compartment near the fuel filter.)
> When jumpering the circuit for the fuel pump, and touching the fuel pump
it
> seems to click when engaged but that is it. How can I be certain it is the
> fueul pump? Is there something else I could/should check first? One last
> item. Chilton’s says there is a fuse on the fuel pump relay, which we
could
> not find. Howeer, there is a 30 amp fuse alone above all the relays on the
> fuse box that is burned. It is not just a burned fuse but the socket is
> actually burned. Is this a fuse for the fuel pump relay? Does anyone know
> what this may be for?
> Thanks for listening and any assistance!
> Thanks,
> Dana
Yes put a test light or volt meter back at the fuel pump connector. If it
lights or has voltage then it’s the pump. Also, but some of the old roccos
had an intank(transfer) pump also. So make sure it’s also working and
pumping fuel.
"DC" <woul…@meemail.adr> wrote in message
news:X5rAa.22583$ek2.302765@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> Hi,
> We (my son and I) are new to the Scirocco’s (and VW’s) and bought an 85
> Scirocco. It has been running well for about a month but now will not
start.
> While driving one day it just quite running, quietly. Was coasting, pushed
> the gas and . . . nothing. It turns over well and occasionally will fire
but
> will not start. It appears to not be getting gas. We checked the fuel pump
> fuse and it is good, pulled the fuel filter and turned it over – no gas
> pumping. We pulled the fuel pump relay from the fuse box, jumpered the
> connection, and do not hear the fuel pump run. (There is a pump like buzz
ut
> it seems to be coming from the engine compartment near the fuel filter.)
> When jumpering the circuit for the fuel pump, and touching the fuel pump
it
> seems to click when engaged but that is it. How can I be certain it is the
> fueul pump? Is there something else I could/should check first? One last
> item. Chilton’s says there is a fuse on the fuel pump relay, which we
could
> not find. Howeer, there is a 30 amp fuse alone above all the relays on the
> fuse box that is burned. It is not just a burned fuse but the socket is
> actually burned. Is this a fuse for the fuel pump relay? Does anyone know
> what this may be for?
> Thanks for listening and any assistance!
> Thanks,
> Dana
Ok, of course my scanner is on the fritz. Here is what the Haynes manual
lists for fuse locations:
Fuse No. 1 Radiator Fan 30 Amps
Fuse No. 2 Brake Lights 10 Amps
Fuse No. 3 Cigarette Lighter, radio, clock, interior lights, central locking
10 Amps
Fuse No. 4 Emergency Flasher 15 Amps
Fuse No. 5 FUEL PUMP 15 Amps
Fuse No. 6 Open
Fuse No. 7 Taillights, side marker lights, left 10 Amps
Fuse No. 8 Taillights, side marker lights, right 10 Amps
Fuse No. 9 High Beam, right, high beam indicator 10 Amps
Fuse No. 10 High Beam, left 10 Amps
Fuse No. 11 Windshield wiper/washer 15 Amps
Fuse No. 12 Heated Seats, electric mirrors 15 Amps
Fuse No. 13 Rear window defogger, heated rear view mirrors, rear wiper 15
Amps
Fuse No. 14 Fresh Air Blower, glove box light 20 Amps
Fuse No. 15 Backup Lights, shift console light 10 Amps
Fuse No. 16 Horn 15 Amps
Fuse No. 17 Knock Sensor control unit 10 Amps
Fuse No. 18 Horn Relay, coolant level and temperature warning light 10 Amps
Fuse No. 19 Turn Signals, brake warning light 10 Amps
Fuse No. 20 License Plate Lights 10 Amps
Fuse No. 21 Low Beam, left 10 Amps
Fuse No. 22 Low Beam, right 10 Amps
Relay No. 1 Open
Relay No. 2 Fuel Pump or Glow Plug
Relay No. 3 Seat Warning System
Relay No. 4 Open
Relay No. 5 A/C
Relay No. 6 Duel Horn
Relay No. 7 Open
Relay No. 8 Load Reduction
Relay No. 9 Open
Relay No. 10 Intermittent Wipers
Relay No. 11 Rear Wiper/Washer
Relay No. 12 Emergency Flasher
Relay No. 13 Power Window
Relay No. 14 Open
Relay No. 15 Open
Relay No. 16 Idle Stabilizer
Relay No. 17 A/C thermofuse
Relay No. 18 Coolant Level indicator
Relay No. 19 Power Window
Relay No. 20 Heated Seat
Relay No. 21 Heated Seat
Relay No. 22 Open
Relay No. 23 Power Window Fuse
Relay No. 24 Open
The ONLY 30 Amp Fuse used on the fuse block is for the RADIATOR FAN. I have
seen where people use the wrong rated fuse and it causes shorting and
burning. Check ALL your fuses and make sure that they are off the right
AMPERAGE. Some of the older Audis and VWs did have a fuse located on the
fuel pump relay, but I have used replacements that didn’t have the fuse
built in. If you are jumpering the fuel pump relay and still getting
current at the fuel pump itself the relay is fine and your problem most
likely lies in the pump itself. If you can hear the fuel pump click when
you turn on the ignition the relay is fine. You can also put your hand on
the relay when you turn the key on and you can feel it click. Hope this
helps. Welcome to the exciting (and sometimes frustrating) world of VWs.
Mac
DC" <woul…@meemail.adr> wrote in message
news:X5rAa.22583$ek2.302765@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> Hi,
> We (my son and I) are new to the Scirocco’s (and VW’s) and bought an 85
> Scirocco. It has been running well for about a month but now will not
start.
> While driving one day it just quite running, quietly. Was coasting, pushed
> the gas and . . . nothing. It turns over well and occasionally will fire
but
> will not start. It appears to not be getting gas. We checked the fuel pump
> fuse and it is good, pulled the fuel filter and turned it over – no gas
> pumping. We pulled the fuel pump relay from the fuse box, jumpered the
> connection, and do not hear the fuel pump run. (There is a pump like buzz
ut
> it seems to be coming from the engine compartment near the fuel filter.)
> When jumpering the circuit for the fuel pump, and touching the fuel pump
it
> seems to click when engaged but that is it. How can I be certain it is the
> fueul pump? Is there something else I could/should check first? One last
> item. Chilton’s says there is a fuse on the fuel pump relay, which we
could
> not find. Howeer, there is a 30 amp fuse alone above all the relays on the
> fuse box that is burned. It is not just a burned fuse but the socket is
> actually burned. Is this a fuse for the fuel pump relay? Does anyone know
> what this may be for?
> Thanks for listening and any assistance!
> Thanks,
> Dana
DC wrote:
> Hi,
> We (my son and I) are new to the Scirocco’s (and VW’s) and bought an 85
> Scirocco.
<snip>
> Chilton’s says …
AAAAAhhhhh! Get one of these: <http://www.rb.com> You can find lesser
cost via used on eBay or better yet a local used book store. Buy a
Haynes manual to keep it company. The Chilton can be used to chock the
wheels. :])
> Thanks for listening and any assistance!
> Thanks,
> Dana
Some sites for your further education and a welcome and invitation to
join a larger community:
<http://www.scirocco.org>
Consider the email list, lots everyday, maybe just digest mode.)
<http://forums.vwvortex.com/zeroforum?id=13>
<http://www.nwlink.com/~vdb/cars.html>
As to the original complaint you should consider the 85 year model and
beyond used two pumps, one the main is external , the other is a pre or
transfer pump. It resides inside the tank, accessible via the access
panel under the rear seat bench. (For safety’s sake be careful around
gasoline.)
These transfer pumps seem intended as a safety device: siphoning it out
the top vs draining it out the bottom looks like an accidental gas spill
is less likely.
Nonetheless the transfer pumps seem to fail after many years, esp when
run on low tank conditions over the long term.
There aren’t to many needs for a 30 amp fuse, the pump could be one,
the radiator fan is another. I am a early Sirocco guy and don’t have Mk2
specs off the top of my head but as another poster said you should
review and renew your electrical contacts as opposed to just replacing
the fuse.
hth,
TBerk
Hi DC,
First off, listen to TBerk – get a Bentley manual. DO IT!
Next, join the Scirocco List @ http://www.scirocco.org DO IT!
Now, my little testimony (groans begin)- my first rocco was an ’85 and
she went 270K+ miles when I decided to just give her to another
Scirocco maniac as I had rebuilt another one (’87) intended for my
work vehicle. Aside from her horrendous paint and some bodywork (and
a few things here and there) she was in fine shape. Never once had a
fuel problem. Pumps, relay – nothing. And now I greatly miss her and
kinda want her back. Oh well.
Whereas, with my ‘rebuilt’ ’87 w/ all of 156K on it I’ve done the
transfer pump and relay.
Get the Bentley. DO IT!
Then use it to diagnose the CIS system and fine Bosch ignition. These
cars are very workable and when they run fine they are a delight.
Can’t say those two things about many cars these days.
Assuming you’ve rushed out and gotten the Bentley by now (no? DO IT!),
you have to make absolutely sure the ignition is in proper order. Use
their diagnostic directions. Then once you can rule out ignition
(assuming, you see), then you can check fuel. Don’t go backwards.
Anyhow, whenever you have a no-start condition, flip the ignition to
the ON position. If you don’t hear the tranfer pump under the
backseat and the pump under the car (open the door if you must), then
you have to check the relay (and the fuse). Get another relay (you
can get them from parts4vws.com or germanautoparts.com for around $20
– dealer wants $60!) and always keep this good relay in the glove box.
To me, it’s not expensive, it’s a full, working relay and it’s easy
to drop in.
OK, that’s my two cents. Come back when you’ve done the essentials.
Watch your battery and make sure it doesn’t get too low on juice!
You’d be surprised how a semi-drained battery can screw up diagnosis.
Got the Bentley yet?
-Phil Kerschner
Sorry I haven’t been back for a while, but I have read all the suggestions.
Thanks! I will work through the issue as Phil suggest. Of course, only after
I get the Bentley manual (no – I didn’t get it yet. Gimme a break!). The car
is stuck about 30 miles away so I probably won’t be able to work on it again
until this weekend. I’ll let everyone know what I find.
DC
"Phil Boeye" <philbo…@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a93bfddc.0305281322.11141b7d@posting.google.com…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> Hi DC,
> First off, listen to TBerk – get a Bentley manual. DO IT!
> Next, join the Scirocco List @ http://www.scirocco.org DO IT!
> Now, my little testimony (groans begin)- my first rocco was an ’85 and
> she went 270K+ miles when I decided to just give her to another
> Scirocco maniac as I had rebuilt another one (’87) intended for my
> work vehicle. Aside from her horrendous paint and some bodywork (and
> a few things here and there) she was in fine shape. Never once had a
> fuel problem. Pumps, relay – nothing. And now I greatly miss her and
> kinda want her back. Oh well.
> Whereas, with my ‘rebuilt’ ’87 w/ all of 156K on it I’ve done the
> transfer pump and relay.
> Get the Bentley. DO IT!
> Then use it to diagnose the CIS system and fine Bosch ignition. These
> cars are very workable and when they run fine they are a delight.
> Can’t say those two things about many cars these days.
> Assuming you’ve rushed out and gotten the Bentley by now (no? DO IT!),
> you have to make absolutely sure the ignition is in proper order. Use
> their diagnostic directions. Then once you can rule out ignition
> (assuming, you see), then you can check fuel. Don’t go backwards.
> Anyhow, whenever you have a no-start condition, flip the ignition to
> the ON position. If you don’t hear the tranfer pump under the
> backseat and the pump under the car (open the door if you must), then
> you have to check the relay (and the fuse). Get another relay (you
> can get them from parts4vws.com or germanautoparts.com for around $20
> – dealer wants $60!) and always keep this good relay in the glove box.
> To me, it’s not expensive, it’s a full, working relay and it’s easy
> to drop in.
> OK, that’s my two cents. Come back when you’ve done the essentials.
> Watch your battery and make sure it doesn’t get too low on juice!
> You’d be surprised how a semi-drained battery can screw up diagnosis.
> Got the Bentley yet?
> -Phil Kerschner
I assume you mean the Bentley Service Manual that lists for about 55.00 on
http://www.pb.com and not the archived Microfiche, right? I see a couple of them on
ebay right now.
"Phil Boeye" <philbo…@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a93bfddc.0305281322.11141b7d@posting.google.com…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> Hi DC,
> First off, listen to TBerk – get a Bentley manual. DO IT!
> Next, join the Scirocco List @ http://www.scirocco.org DO IT!
> Now, my little testimony (groans begin)- my first rocco was an ’85 and
> she went 270K+ miles when I decided to just give her to another
> Scirocco maniac as I had rebuilt another one (’87) intended for my
> work vehicle. Aside from her horrendous paint and some bodywork (and
> a few things here and there) she was in fine shape. Never once had a
> fuel problem. Pumps, relay – nothing. And now I greatly miss her and
> kinda want her back. Oh well.
> Whereas, with my ‘rebuilt’ ’87 w/ all of 156K on it I’ve done the
> transfer pump and relay.
> Get the Bentley. DO IT!
> Then use it to diagnose the CIS system and fine Bosch ignition. These
> cars are very workable and when they run fine they are a delight.
> Can’t say those two things about many cars these days.
> Assuming you’ve rushed out and gotten the Bentley by now (no? DO IT!),
> you have to make absolutely sure the ignition is in proper order. Use
> their diagnostic directions. Then once you can rule out ignition
> (assuming, you see), then you can check fuel. Don’t go backwards.
> Anyhow, whenever you have a no-start condition, flip the ignition to
> the ON position. If you don’t hear the tranfer pump under the
> backseat and the pump under the car (open the door if you must), then
> you have to check the relay (and the fuse). Get another relay (you
> can get them from parts4vws.com or germanautoparts.com for around $20
> – dealer wants $60!) and always keep this good relay in the glove box.
> To me, it’s not expensive, it’s a full, working relay and it’s easy
> to drop in.
> OK, that’s my two cents. Come back when you’ve done the essentials.
> Watch your battery and make sure it doesn’t get too low on juice!
> You’d be surprised how a semi-drained battery can screw up diagnosis.
> Got the Bentley yet?
> -Phil Kerschner
Correct, but you can get it for at least $20 less if you contact some
of the websites I mentioned. Also, go to http://www.scirocco.org/links for a
ton of Scirocco links, including parts suppliers.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> I assume you mean the Bentley Service Manual that lists for about 55.00 on
> http://www.pb.com and not the archived Microfiche, right? I see a couple of them on
> ebay right now.