I am currently wondering about purchasing a torque wrench… I have
one which I bought years ago but it does nothing below 50 ftbs or so..
I am looking for a wrench which starts about 10-15 ftlbs and am
wondering if the the ‘click’ type wrenches really work well at this
small amount of torque (the one I have bearly clicks at 50ftbs)..
I am contemplating getting a digital torque wrench, instead of the
‘click’ version…
Does anyone have any preferences, warnings about torque wrenches for
smaller amounts of torque…
thanx
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
phew…@ccvm.sunysb.edu (PHewett) wrote:
>Jud Main <jud…@fred.colorado.edu> wrote:
>>I got a book out of the library called (something like) how to blueprint
>>your engine (have seen it at local bookstore for sale also, will probably
>>get the sucker). It had quite a bit of information on torque wrenches.
>>It mentioned three types, click-type torque wrenches being THE WORST
>>and a MUST to avoid, since the clicking is due to a spring inside, and the
>>spring tends to wear and thus change the setting over time. The author
>>mentioned that some click-type torque wrenches become off by nearly
>>30% at times. Not good when the book says 100 ft. lbs. and you end
>>up setting it for only 70.
>I was looking at some Sears/Craftsman ‘click’ type torque wrenches and
>it said that it was guarenteed for only one year (for wear and for
>accuracy +/- 4%)… it would be great if someone could add to this
>discussion since i need a torque wrench for the job I am doing this
>weekend and don’t know where the best place to turn is !! thanks !!
I would imagine that a new click-type torque wrench could work fine
for a year, but if you use it long enough, the spring that measure the
torque is going to change in tolerance…
I remember the article being definitely against used click type torque
wrenches and against buying a new one, simply because of the wear
and tear on the spring. The "beam" type is supposed to be most
accurate (or did I mentioned that already? If so, ignore, end of the day
for me…)
What’s the price on the Sears click type???
Jud.
PHewett (phew…@ccvm.sunysb.edu) writes:
> I am currently wondering about purchasing a torque wrench… I have
> one which I bought years ago but it does nothing below 50 ftbs or so..
> I am looking for a wrench which starts about 10-15 ftlbs and am
> wondering if the the ‘click’ type wrenches really work well at this
> small amount of torque (the one I have bearly clicks at 50ftbs)..
> I am contemplating getting a digital torque wrench, instead of the
> ‘click’ version…
> Does anyone have any preferences, warnings about torque wrenches for
> smaller amounts of torque…
> thanx
Must be nice to afford a digital torque wrench and drive a Volkswagen!
The click type torque wrenches do work, and work very well, if you get
good quality. The beam type wrenches (with the long arm that swings
around above the main arm) are useless. I read a paper some time ago
from the aircraft industry that examined the accuracy of torque wrenches
and one of the conclusions was that you would be lucky to get within
50% of the actual torque.
I use two torque wrenches. The first is from Snap-On which is a click
type with 3/8" drive, flex ratchet head, and has a range from 5 ft.lbs.
to 75 ft.lbs. This I use for all fasteners to a torque of about 50 ft.lbs.
Above about 40 ft.lbs., the bolts are getting fairly large, so I switch to
my other wrench, a click-type, fixed ratchet head, 1/2" drive with a range
from 20 ft.lbs. to 200 ft.lbs. The upper limit is required for changing
front CV joints and front wheel bearings, where the shaft nut must be
torqued to 195 ft.lbs. accurately. If you do not intend to change these
components, you can get a wrench with a range of 10-150 ft.lbs. instead
and save alot of money. I went with larger version because I service
three Jettas, and the payback was 2 cars.
Buy quality above all else. The whole idea for using a torque
wrench is to set proper torque, to maximize the working strength of
each and every fastener. Otherwise, there is no point, and you can
save yourself alot of money. I have found that undoing properly
torqued bolts is much easier, and it makes the whole maintenance process
that much more enjoyable. Plus, you will rarely if ever break a bolt,
and parts will last much longer, even the valve cover gaskets if torqued
to 7.5 ft.lbs. and then occassionally retorqued as the gasket compresses
do not leak for a very long time!
If Snap-On were to back a truck up my driveway and leave it there, then a
digital wrench would be nice to have, but it really isn’t worth the
cost. Since I do all my maintenance outside, even in the winter, I
don’t know how well they would work in the cold!
Hope this helps,
–
Dent Harrison, P.Eng.
Chelsea, Quebec, Canada
cn…@freenet.carleton.ca
cn…@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Dent Harrison) wrote:
>PHewett (phew…@ccvm.sunysb.edu) writes:
>> I am contemplating getting a digital torque wrench, instead of the
>> ‘click’ version…
>Must be nice to afford a digital torque wrench and drive a Volkswagen!
>I use two torque wrenches. The first is from Snap-On …
Must be nice to afford Snap on … The prices of Snap on Tools are
outragous… Even beyond understanding (service, nice white truck that
stops by to deliver tools, quality, pretty name)… they are offering
the ‘click’ type torque wrench that you mention (10-75 ftbs) for
$133.00. This is $73.00 more than the sears version (@ 59.95)… The
heavier torque wrench (20-200 ftbs) was going for something like
$188.00. Yea, its nice to have quality… but its nice to get a fair
price too..
Other Interesting Snap On tidbits
3 ton jack stands: $219.00 (pair) – seen them at Pep Boys for $17.50
1 box wrench ($36.00) – goes without saying that I got my set (Bench
Top from K-Mart for $25.00… its an excellant set)
1 set of 5 ratchet extensions ($125.00)
1 impact wrench/no add pieces ($45.00) – I got a good quality version
of this from a local tools store w/adapters for $25.00
For other price quotes… send your requests !!
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
>>PHewett (phew…@ccvm.sunysb.edu) writes:
>>> I am contemplating getting a digital torque wrench, instead of the
>>> ‘click’ version…
>>Must be nice to afford a digital torque wrench and drive a Volkswagen!
>>I use two torque wrenches. The first is from Snap-On …
>Must be nice to afford Snap on … The prices of Snap on Tools are
>outragous… Even beyond understanding (service, nice white truck that
>stops by to deliver tools, quality, pretty name)… they are offering
>the ‘click’ type torque wrench that you mention (10-75 ftbs) for
>$133.00. This is $73.00 more than the sears version (@ 59.95)… The
>heavier torque wrench (20-200 ftbs) was going for something like
>$188.00. Yea, its nice to have quality… but its nice to get a fair
>price too..
>Other Interesting Snap On tidbits
>3 ton jack stands: $219.00 (pair) – seen them at Pep Boys for $17.50
>1 box wrench ($36.00) – goes without saying that I got my set (Bench
> Top from K-Mart for $25.00… its an excellant set)
>1 set of 5 ratchet extensions ($125.00)
>1 impact wrench/no add pieces ($45.00) – I got a good quality version
> of this from a local tools store w/adapters for $25.00
>For other price quotes… send your requests !!
I don’t want to start a Snap-On / Pep Boys war. I would like to
interject a little common sense into the debate though.
(Disclaimer: I own mostly Snap-On tools )
I think that you must look at the application followed by the
amount of use that you get out of a tool before you say they
are too expensive. To put this in perspective, while I paid ~$180
for my Snap-On torque wrench and I love it, for the normal user,
I would recommend the Sears version.
On the other hand, I think that if you buy a Sears breaker bar,
you need to keep two things in mind.
1) Be ready for it to break (I got a very bad bruise when mine broke
trying to remove an axial nut)
2) Make sure you have a second car to go get another (free) one
from Sears.
I would never recommend a Sears breaker bar if you intend to remove
very tight nuts like the axial nut. Between me and two friends,
we have broken 8 Sears breaker bars. Since I got the Snap-On one,
(which they now borrow instead of even trying the Sears) it has not
broken even with a 230lb pound friend putting all of his weight on
it with a 5ft pipe on the end.
The more often you use a tool, and the more heavy duty applications
you use it in, the more I recommend the Snap-On. The opposite
also holds for Sears, Pep Boys, etc.
Eddie Hunnell
hunn…@bnr.ca
PS. I would also recommend the Snap-On combination wrenches and
snap ring pliers. They are worth the price.
I got these comments from Jim Harvey (Harvey Racing, on the Web). (My
paraphrasing)
1. Snap On click type are the best ones to get and they keep their accuracy
well. While expensive, they are worth the money.
2. Beam type, if of *top quality*, is a good second choice.
3. Digital are very accurate, very expensive and very fragile. Probably not
a good choice for general day to day use. (When you go to work for Williams
Grand Prix Engineering, maybe Frank Willaims will get you one.)
I know what you mean about Snap On costs, especially if you are not using the
tools to earn some money. I will pay the extra money for critical
applications, or when it is a specialized tool that is not readily available.
Chris
phew…@ccvm.sunysb.edu (PHewett) writes:
> 3 ton jack stands: $219.00 (pair) – seen them at Pep Boys for $17.50
> 1 box wrench ($36.00) – goes without saying that I got my set (Bench
> Top from K-Mart for $25.00… its an excellant set)
> 1 set of 5 ratchet extensions ($125.00)
> 1 impact wrench/no add pieces ($45.00) – I got a good quality version
> of this from a local tools store w/adapters for $25.00
Sure, you can find cheap tools for far less than Snap-On. But cheap
wrenches and sockets can not only break but also destroy the nut or bolt
you’re working on (by slipping).
Snap-On tools are true lifetime tools that are good enough for mechanics
to rely on day in and day out. But if you like to risk your life on a
daily basis by getting under a car with $20 jackstands …
Getting back to the original topic — if you use a "click" torque wrench,
don’t forget to to set it back to zero torque after each use to avoid
wearing out the spring.
–
[ /tom haapanen -- t...@metrics.com -- software metrics inc -- waterloo, ont ]
[ "okie use' ta mean you was from oklahoma. now it means you're scum. don't ]
[ mean nothing itself, it's the way they say it." -- john steinbeck ]
>John Hunnell P840 (hunn…@bnr.ca) wrote:
>: On the other hand, I think that if you buy a Sears breaker bar,
>: you need to keep two things in mind.
>: 1) Be ready for it to break
>What the hell else is a breaker bar _for_??
>–
>Mike Drayton mdray…@sr.hp.com
Anyone who buys a breaker bar (or any tool) with the
intention of breaking it is a fool. The purpose of a
breaker bar it to ‘break’ a nut free from a bolt and to
prevent you from ‘breaking’ your wratchet. It is not to break the
bar.
Eddie Hunnell
hunn…@bnr.ca
hunn…@bnr.ca (John Hunnell P840) wrote:
>>>PHewett (phew…@ccvm.sunysb.edu) writes:
>>>Must be nice to afford a digital torque wrench and drive a Volkswagen!
>>Must be nice to afford Snap on … The prices of Snap on Tools are
>>outragous..
>I don’t want to start a Snap-On / Pep Boys war. I would like to
>interject a little common sense into the debate though.
>(Disclaimer: I own mostly Snap-On tools )
>I think that you must look at the application followed by the
>amount of use that you get out of a tool before you say they
>are too expensive.
Before I get my gonads chewed by snap on fans or ‘real’ mechanics… I
would like to say that I couldn’t agree more that amount of use is an
important concern in the price you pay for tools… I have had enough
experience with cheap tools to know this…
pi…@cpcug.org (Chris Picot) wrote:
>I got these comments from Jim Harvey (Harvey Racing, on the Web). (My
>paraphrasing)
Ok… not a bad idea… but an additional question: it says in the
catalog that these wrenches need recalibration every 6 months to a
year (or so)… does this require additional parts/info/money… am I
going to be hunting down a replacement kit from snap-on a year from
now ??
Also, to keep things clean, I guess I would use the damm thing about 3
or 4 times a year… would this suggest that
(a) just stick w/sears… its not worth the extra dough
(b) i would probably not need to recalibrate the snap-on
until I was 95… (however, I still’d be driving my 86 Golf)
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
t…@metrics.com (Tom Haapanen) wrote:
>phew…@ccvm.sunysb.edu (PHewett) writes:
>> 3 ton jack stands: $219.00 (pair) – seen them at Pep Boys for $17.50
>> 1 box wrench ($36.00) – goes without saying that I got my set (Bench
>> Top from K-Mart for $25.00… its an excellant set)
>> 1 set of 5 ratchet extensions ($125.00)
>> 1 impact wrench/no add pieces ($45.00) – I got a good quality version
>> of this from a local tools store w/adapters for $25.00
>Sure, you can find cheap tools for far less than Snap-On. But cheap
>wrenches and sockets can not only break but also destroy the nut or bolt
>you’re working on (by slipping).
>Snap-On tools are true lifetime tools that are good enough for mechanics
>to rely on day in and day out. But if you like to risk your life on a
>daily basis by getting under a car with $20 jackstands …
>Getting back to the original topic — if you use a "click" torque wrench,
>don’t forget to to set it back to zero torque after each use to avoid
>wearing out the spring.
>–
>[ /tom haapanen -- t...@metrics.com -- software metrics inc -- waterloo, ont ]
>[ "okie use' ta mean you was from oklahoma. now it means you're scum. don't ]
>[ mean nothing itself, it's the way they say it." -- john steinbeck ]
Setting it back to zero – yes, thanks, that makes perfect sense.
The question I have now is that I picked up a torque wrench, click-type,
very heavy duty from an old girlfriend’s grandfather who had passed
away, and I need to make sure that it is still accurate. Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Jud.
t…@metrics.com (Tom Haapanen) wrote:
>Sure, you can find cheap tools for far less than Snap-On. But cheap
>wrenches and sockets can not only break but also destroy the nut or bolt
>you’re working on (by slipping)…. But if you like to risk your life on a
>daily basis by getting under a car with $20 jackstands …
As I said elsewhere quality and amount of use is an important
consideration… however, it is a bit extreme to call every other tool
manufacturer cheap just because the are not snap-on… i am not sure
you can justify $219.00 for two jack stands… there are plenty of
safe and high quality jack stands out there (pep boys or not) for far
less… my feeling is that happy mediums can be found… as someone
else has said it really depends on how often you use the tool and what
its used for..
>Getting back to the original topic — if you use a "click" torque wrench,
>don’t forget to to set it back to zero torque after each use to avoid
>wearing out the spring.
Thanks for the comment… didn’t know !! Still haven’t decided on a
wrench yet !! ack !!
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
In article <43d6eb$…@abel.cc.sunysb.edu> phew…@ccvm.sunysb.edu (PHewett) writes:
>From: phew…@ccvm.sunysb.edu (PHewett)
>Subject: Re: Torque Wrenches
>Date: Sat, 16 Sep 1995 03:46:52 GMT
>t…@metrics.com (Tom Haapanen) wrote:
>>Sure, you can find cheap tools for far less than Snap-On. But cheap
>>wrenches and sockets can not only break but also destroy the nut or bolt
>>you’re working on (by slipping)…. But if you like to risk your life on a
>>daily basis by getting under a car with $20 jackstands …
>As I said elsewhere quality and amount of use is an important
>consideration… however, it is a bit extreme to call every other tool
>manufacturer cheap just because the are not snap-on… i am not sure
>you can justify $219.00 for two jack stands… there are plenty of
>safe and high quality jack stands out there (pep boys or not) for far
>less… my feeling is that happy mediums can be found… as someone
>else has said it really depends on how often you use the tool and what
>its used for..
>>Getting back to the original topic — if you use a "click" torque wrench,
>>don’t forget to to set it back to zero torque after each use to avoid
>>wearing out the spring.
>Thanks for the comment… didn’t know !! Still haven’t decided on a
>wrench yet !! ack !!
A happy medium might be to get the less expensive click type wrench and test
it at 50, 100 and 150 lbs when new and from from time to time. (This
probably means that you have to drag your weights out from under the bed and
haul them down to the post office [under your raincoat of course] and weigh
them on the suppossedly accurate scale and mark the correct weight on each
one.) Put yout torque wrench on a stout bolt and hang 100 lbs from a point
1 foot out from the center. Keep adjusting the gismo until it just clicks
with the weight. Take a reading. Go to the next step. There is probaly an
easier way.
Chris
I have a copie of that book,
The step by step guide to: "ENGINE BLUEPRINTING" BY Rick Voegelin.
Here’s the paragraph about these torque wrenches.
"There are two common types of torque wrenches: (1) beam wrenches,
wich indicate torque loads by deflecting a flexible shaft, and
(2) click-type wrenches, wich produce an audible "click" when the
torque resistance has reached the specified setting. Even though
the click-type torque wrenches are unquestionably easier to use and
"sexier" than the old-fashioned beam wrench, they have several
drawbacks. First, they are several time more expensive than a beam
wrench. Second, any sort of rough handling can cause them to read
inaccurately -and wrenches have been known to take a tumble off a
workbench. Since there is no simple way to test the accuracy of a
click-type torque wrench, they must be returned to the manufacturer
for adjustment. Beam-type torque wrenches, on the other hand, are
dirt cheap and dead reliable. Since the beam is nothing more than
a steel spring, there are no moving parts to break or go out of
kilter. Probably the best solution is to own two torque wrenches
-a click-type for tedious chores like tightening head bolts, and
a beam-type for double-checking the torque readings of crucial
fasteners, like rod bolts and flywheel fasteners."
John Dillon
Quebec, Canada.
jdil…@aei.ca
pi…@cpcug.org (Chris Picot) wrote:
>A happy medium might be to get the less expensive click type wrench and test
>it at 50, 100 and 150 lbs when new and from from time to time. (This
>probably means that you have to drag your weights out from under the bed and
>haul them down to the post office [under your raincoat of course] and weigh
>them on the suppossedly accurate scale and mark the correct weight on each
>one.) Put yout torque wrench on a stout bolt and hang 100 lbs from a point
>1 foot out from the center. Keep adjusting the gismo until it just clicks
>with the weight.
Unfortunately, I don’t have a raincoat… damm..
In article <43jumh$…@abel.cc.sunysb.edu> phew…@ccvm.sunysb.edu (PHewett) writes:
>From: phew…@ccvm.sunysb.edu (PHewett)
>Subject: Re: Torque Wrenches
>Date: Mon, 18 Sep 1995 17:17:45 GMT
>pi…@cpcug.org (Chris Picot) wrote:
>>A happy medium might be to get the less expensive click type wrench and test
>>it at 50, 100 and 150 lbs when new and from from time to time. (This
>>probably means that you have to drag your weights out from under the bed and
>>haul them down to the post office [under your raincoat of course] and weigh
>>them on the suppossedly accurate scale and mark the correct weight on each
>>one.) Put yout torque wrench on a stout bolt and hang 100 lbs from a point
>>1 foot out from the center. Keep adjusting the gismo until it just clicks
>>with the weight.
>Unfortunately, I don’t have a raincoat… damm..
I guess that puts an end to your flashing too.
I have a bean wrench and an inexpensive click wrench. The setting scale
of the click wrench is off as much as 5 ft.lbs. in some ranges. What I do
is use a double female square drive adaptor to link the two wrenches
together, then use the beam wrench to set the click wrench accurately.
This is much easier and faster than hanging known weights off a known
lever, etc. It makes the click wrench at least as accurate as the beam
wrench, and the click wrench makes quick work of torquing down a cylinder
head.
> t…@metrics.com (Tom Haapanen) wrote:
>> Sure, you can find cheap tools for far less than Snap-On. But cheap
>> wrenches and sockets can not only break but also destroy the nut or bolt
>> you’re working on (by slipping)…. But if you like to risk your life on a
>> daily basis by getting under a car with $20 jackstands …
phew…@ccvm.sunysb.edu (PHewett) writes:
> As I said elsewhere quality and amount of use is an important
> consideration… however, it is a bit extreme to call every other tool
> manufacturer cheap just because the are not snap-on…
No, not every other one. But I avoid the $5 specials on wrenches and
other such deals. Get quality tools from a reputable manufacturer: if
you don’t want to pay the big bucks for the shiny Snap-On versions,
consider other decent quality brands like Craftsman, Gray, Stahlwille
and Facom.
–
[ /tom haapanen -- t...@metrics.com -- software metrics inc -- waterloo, ont ]
[ "how's it going, mr. peterson?" ]
[ "it's a dog eat dog world, and i'm wearing milkbone underwear." -- cheers ]
In article <43bvjs$…@abel.cc.sunysb.edu> phew…@ccvm.sunysb.edu (PHewett) writes:
>hunn…@bnr.ca (John Hunnell P840) wrote:
>>>Must be nice to afford Snap on … The prices of Snap on Tools are
>>>outragous..
>Before I get my gonads chewed by snap on fans or ‘real’ mechanics… I
>would like to say that I couldn’t agree more that amount of use is an
>important concern in the price you pay for tools… I have had enough
>experience with cheap tools to know this…
Even for a one time use, cheap, or let’s say, low quality tools are
simply not worth it. Besides not doing the job they may actually make
a mess of what you are tring to fix (stripped heads or nuts, etc) and
seriously hurt you when the tool breaks (and it HURTS when that happens).
In general, the quality of say, Sears Craftsman, is +/- OK, though
I did manage to break several of ttheir sockets.
On another note, a good tool will last you your lifetime!
ANother hint: Buy the biggest tool set you can afford. I did not,
and ended up buying all the additional pieces anyway, and ended up
paying about 2* as much as I would have if I had bought the whole set.
–
—————–
Jan j…@lipari.usc.edu
Nicholas Wilson <nwil…@mcn.org> wrote:
>I have a bean wrench and an inexpensive click wrench. The setting scale
>of the click wrench is off as much as 5 ft.lbs. in some ranges. What I do
If you do use a beam wrench, make sure that you use the pivot point on
the handle. If you don’t use the pivot point, you might as well not
be using a torque wrench. I find beam wrenches to be surprisingly
accurate but the click type wrench is easier to use.
JR